The Philosophers' Cocoon

Job-market 'value' of postdocs, VAPs, and non-academic jobs?

A reader writes in:

I am a doctoral candidate on the job market. I am holding out hope for a TT job, but I am realistic. I know I will probably need to take something other than a TT job first and work my way toward a TT job. My question is, does anyone have a sense of how "valuable" postdocs are compared to a VAP? I know that there are many factors that go into how valuable they are for individuals, but I am wondering if there is any sense in which hiring committees might find one more valuable than the other? In a similar vein, how do hiring committees view potential candidates who took "non-academic" jobs for several years? For instance, as a librarian, consultant, hospital administrator, etc. Would taking such a job hurt a candidate's chances at later getting a TT job? Does working in a non-academic area closely connected to one's research interests affect any of this? All of this assumes that the candidate is still conducting and publishing good research (and maybe teaching). 

I tried doing a search within the blog and did not see these questions in a recent thread, but if they were and I missed them

These are all good questions. When it comes to postdocs vs. VAPs, I guess my sense is that all things being equal, postdocs may make one more competitive for R1 jobs, whereas VAPs probably tend to make one more competitive for jobs at teaching institutions. Basically, this is because postdocs are often prestigious and research focused, whereas VAPs tend to be more teaching heavy. Of course, there are probably exceptions--such as VAPs in R1 departments, etc. But, at least as a rule of thumb, insofar as VAPs give teaching experience, they're probably more likely to help one establish a good teaching record as an independent instructor--the kind of thing that, in my experience, people at teaching-focused universities tend to care about.

As for non-academic jobs, I'm not sure--but I suspect that in some areas (such as jobs in bioethics, environmental ethics, technology, etc.), jobs outside of the academy might make a candidate look interesting. On the other hand, time outside of the academy might negatively impact one's publishing record and amount of experience teaching, and I wonder whether some committees might be biased toward those who don't have a "gap" in their academic employment record.

But really, I'm just speculating a bit here. So it would be great to hear from others--both from hiring committees and from recent job applicants. How in your experience do postdocs, VAPs, and non-academic jobs compare in terms of their value on the academic job market? In the case of non-academic jobs, does it matter if the job is in an 'academic-adjacent' area?

Expected outcomes for a 1-2 year postdoc?

In our August "how can we help you?" thread, a reader asks:

I would appreciate some advice on the expected outcome for a 1-2 year Postdoc position. I am currently working on a proposal for a position that is advertised for one year with the possibility of an extension, research only with optional teaching. I want to specify the expected outcome in the proposal but I am not sure how much output is expected for a position that basically only lasts one year. It is not enough time to write an entire book (and I am not sure I want to turn my suggested research project into one), but maybe one paper would be too little? I would appreciate any experience, from "both sides" - successful applicants as well as committee members. Thank you!

Good question. I don't have experience applying to postdocs like this, so unfortunately I can't offer any advice. However, William Peden submitted the following reply:

The rule of thumb that I have been told and used successfully is two papers per year. The expectation, if search committees are at all sensible, is that developing these two papers will lead to further outputs as you research the area; the total number will depend on the amount of time for research, as well as the duration of the project. So you could give quick summaries of the two main papers, and note clearly that these will lead to further contributions building on the new ground opened up by the two main papers.

This sounds reasonable. Does anyone else have any helpful tips or other insights?

Tips for applying to postdocs?

In our newest "how can we help you?" thread, a grad student asks:

I have a few questions about applying for post-doctoral fellowships. I'm a soon-to-be graduating student with rather niche philosophical interests. Though I've found a few prestigious, government-funded post-doctoral fellowships I'm aiming to apply to, I can't seem to find a suitable supervisor in the country whose research interests are similar to my own. So, I'm left wondering:

(1) How similar should my research interests even be to those of a post-doctoral supervisor?

(2) How constrained am I by the subject of my dissertation when applying for a post-doctoral fellowship? Would it be acceptable if I propose to work in a research area that's only tangentially related to what I've worked on so far?

I don't have much experience with postdocs, so I'm not a good person to provide answers here. However, another reader submitted the following reply:

In Europe - especially the north - you should not bother to apply for a post doc unless your research experience matches the call. The only people who really get serious consideration are those who genuinely work in the area. If it says philosophy of biology, we will not be able to seriously consider someone working in philosophy of physics. So, if your dissertation has nothing to do with the topic - if it is in M&E, for example - and the call is for philosophy of science, do not apply.

Do any readers have any other helpful advice for the OP?

Finding mentors and guidance while in a postdoc?

In our newest "how can we help you?" thread, a reader asks:

I'm between a grad program and a job, in a post-doc. In my grad program, I had great mentorship and guidance; in my post-doc, I have neither. I feel very adrift and mostly alone. (This may echo what others say about jobs that are not near other universities).

Maybe I feel like mentorship and guidance would be helpful for me at this point, and I don't know where to find it. There is also general loneliness, but that may be distinct. I've been trying to read and stay up to date on the field, and keep writing to stay engaged. It's all been moderately helpful, but I wonder if others have tips as to how to navigate this in-between phase? Maybe even how to stay motivated on the job market when no mentor seems to "have your back"?

I'm sorry this reader is dealing with this, but these are excellent questions that hopefully we can help with!

One thing that I did earlier in my career was apply for a 2 week NEH summer seminar, which was fantastic. I got to meet quite a few other early-career folk there, along with a few accomplished senior members of the profession who I developed helpful mentoring relationships with. While, to be honest, a lot of my early-career experience involved learning to stand on my own two feet, as it were, finding my own way without much guidance (something that I think is probably inevitable for a lot of early-career people), I will say that their mentorship was incredibly helpful at crucial times in my development and on the job-market. So, I'd definitely recommend applying to summer programs/institutes.

Does anyone else have any helpful tips or experiences to share?

Postdocs requiring projects beyond the dissertation?

In our newest "how can we help you?" thread, a reader asks:

This question might be too specific, especially given the UK focus, but I think there is no harm in asking.

I am looking to apply for a Leverhulme Early Career Fellowship and one of the criteria is that "the project put forward should therefore not be a reworking or mere extension of the candidate’s doctoral research project". I was wondering if anyone had a sense of how distinct a project has to be in these sorts of circumstances?

For instance, suppose my doctoral thesis was on distributive justice, would another project on distributive justice but in a different domain be considered an extension of the project?

Or suppose my thesis was fairly theoretical, but I now want to explore similar questions in applied/practical philosophy, but informed by my previous work. Would this be considered sufficiently different?

More broadly, do people have a sense about the merits of this kind of project versus one on a very different subject but still in ones broad research specialism?

These are fair questions, and not too specific at all! I'm not all that well-placed to answer the questions, as I've never applied to let alone hired for postdoc positions like this. However, I suspect that "[exploring] similar questions in applied/practical philosophy, but informed by my previous work" would almost certainly run afoul of the requirement, as it sounds like a clear extension of one's dissertation project. I'm less sure about whether "another project on distributive justice but in a different domain [would] be considered an extension of the project", and suspect that the answer is probably something like, "Well, it depends on how similar that project is, albeit in a different domain." 

But again, I'm not at all sure about any of this. It would be great to hear some answers from people who are more in-the-know!

How to make the most out of a postdoc?

In our February "how can we help you?" thread, a postdoc writes:

I've read a lot of (helpful!) advice about making the most out of grad school and a variety of job opportunities. I'm wondering if there's been a thread on how to make the most out of a post-doc? Post-docs seem to me super liminal and precarious, especially since one likely has to immediately go back on the market after starting (unless one has the luxury/credentials to be very confident of her success the next go round).

What do successful postdocs look like? What should those starting a postdoc in the fall try to do while there? (other than find less precarious employment). All tips and insights from all perspectives are welcome, including what (if anything) those on search committees like to see from applicants who are currently postdocs.

Good questions! Another postdoc submitted the following reply:

I think this largely depends on the kind of postdoc you're on. If it's a research postdoc, then by all means, write as much as you can. If you have to teach, then teach -- if you can choose which classes, try to build up your teaching experience.

I guess I would just add that I think a 'successful postdoc' should probably improve as many parts of your CV as possible (research, teaching, and service), and in ways that make the most sense from the standpoint of job-market strategy. Remember, there are multiple job markets (R1s, SLACs, CCs, etc.), and candidates from certain kinds of PhD programs tend to fare better in different job markets than others. So, I'd say, even if you're in a research postdoc without teaching, by all means focus on publishing--but if there are other ways that you can add to your CV beyond publishing, consider doing it. Second, when it comes to choosing classes to teach, I'd advise trying to find courses to teach that expand your repertoire. The more types of courses you're able to teach, the more likely you'll be a good fit for a department that needs a particular course taught.

But these are just my thoughts. What are yours? It would be great, I think, to hear particularly from commenters who have recently had postdocs. What did you do, and how did it impact your competitiveness on the job market after the postdoc? What, if anything, would you have done differently in your postdoc?

Two postdoc positions in Hong Kong (philosophy of science / epistemology)

Darrell Rowbottom (Lingnan University) writes in:

I was recently fortunate enough to win a large grant for a project on Philosophy of Contemporary and Future Science. The abstract for this is as follows:

Science has changed considerably in recent decades and continues to change at a remarkable rate. Many of the changes concern how science is done. Computer simulations are used to make predictions and to propose explanations. Gigantic databases of information – collections of ‘big data’ – are analyzed for patterns, to generate and test hypotheses. New areas of interdisciplinary science are forming, which involve attempts to integrate approaches from the older natural scientific disciplines of chemistry, physics, and biology. And artificial intelligence (AI) is being used to perform tasks that humans simply cannot. On the horizon are AI scientists.

This project will involve philosophers and scientists working together. It will examine some of the difficulties created by these new approaches and emerging developments, and tackle some of the interesting questions that they raise about the future of science. Some of the results will be of practical significance for science, e.g. concern how problems in collaborations involving different areas of science may be addressed, and other results will be of intellectual significance, e.g. in understanding the limits of current and future science.

Some of the specific questions this project will address are as follows. To what extent can experiments done on computers – computer simulations – stand in for experiments done ‘for real’, in the laboratory or the field? How can conflicts about what counts as a good method of inquiry, between scientists working in different areas, be resolved effectively? How does the changing social structure of science bear on what we should expect future science to produce? What are the advantages and disadvantages of having AI perform specific functions in future science? How might AI best be deployed?

The project will involve a team of ten collaborators from the natural sciences and philosophy, based in HK and Europe.

I am now looking for two postdoctoral fellows to work on the project over the course of three years. (They will later be joined by another postdoc and a funded PhD student.) The ideal start date would be August 2022, but I have some flexibility about bringing that backwards or forwards. The fellows will be based in HK but spend some time in the UK on placements with scientists and philosophers working in cognate areas.

The ideal candidate would have expertise in philosophy of science or epistemology, and also have some background in biology, chemistry, or physics. Experience of working with scientists in the past or knowledge of interdisciplinary areas of science would also be advantageous.

I’d very much like to hear from anyone who is interested in these posts, including, of course, those who expect to complete their PhDs before the planned project start date. Please send me an e-mail with your CV – to [email protected] – and I’ll get back to you within the next couple of weeks.

Handling pregnancy in a postdoc?

In our newest "how can we help you?" thread, a postdoc writes:

I have a one-year postdoc with teaching responsibilities both semesters. I recently learned that I'm pregnant and will be due to give birth about a month before the spring semester ends. I'm super excited! But I don't know exactly how to approach the department/university about this. I don't have a TT and so I can't propose to take the entire semester as "research leave" or something. It's not a huge department and I would find it unfair to ask someone to cover my classes for several weeks. This is complicated by the fact that my spouse lives in a different state several hours away (where I live too when not teaching) and I would much prefer to give birth there. I'd really like to teach my class and I'm hoping I can work something out where I can go online after Spring Break and lecture virtually/have a TA lead in-person discussion sections while I'm gone. But I'm not sure if that's bureaucratically infeasible or just a bad idea. Has anyone been through a similar situation, especially as a postdoc, or been in a department that's had this come up? The university's official policy on maternity leave basically seems to be "work it out with your department," so that's not too much of a help. Thanks so much!!

A great and important question (and a big congrats on the postdoc and soon-to-be new member of your family!). Neither my spouse nor I (obviously) have been a similar position, so unfortunately I'm not the best person to ask here (though I have served as a department chair for several years). That being said, given that the university's policy seems to be "work it out with your department", I guess I'd be inclined to suggest the OP speak to her chair, letting them know just what they wrote above: that they are entirely willing to teach their courses, but that they'd like to teach remotely around and after their due date. See what the chair says. Hopefully, the chair is a good chair, and a reasonable, sympathetic, and accommodating person.

But again, I'm probably not the most well-situated person to give advice here. What do you all think? It would be great to hear from postdocs and faculty who have been in similar situations, as well as from department chairs and others who have been in these situations on the other side of things.

Doing a postdoc (partially) from afar?

In our newest "how can we help you?" thread, Roy writes:

I am about to start a prestigious postdoc in a country different from where I currently live and work. I am very excited and want to work on the project. However, I have a spouse, (who has a good job) and our lovely house in a different country than my postdoc. Commuting between the countries is possible (and the salary is not a problem for doing so), but it is not feasible to come to my native country every weekend. How to make a case for working partly from my native country? The job is 90-95 % research which I could do anywhere (I am more productive at the home office than at the university). The PI of the project likes me and my work very much, so I think (s)he would be compliant. For the last 18 months or so, I have worked from my native country (because of COVID) while officially employed by the university in another country - without major problems. Should I approach the PI or the HR before starting, or should I talk to both? Or should I just start the job, go and see how much people spend their time at the office and if no-one is there on Fridays, for instance, can I just use Fridays for travelling my native country without letting anyone know (working on train/plane etc). Could I write on Saturday and Sunday to take two days off the next week? How much do philosophers usually spend their time at the office anyway, or are scholars responsible for letting others know where they are at a given time (workshops, conferences etc)? I am not asking to work fully from another country and I am willing to participate in seminars at the campus, but it just feels stupid to sit at the office writing and thinking when I could do it at home. If I don't have to be at the office every day then why cannot I work from another country (there might be issues with taxation and social securities, pensions etc after spending significant time in another country though)? Have any of you managed to get a permit to work from another country?

As someone with an academic spouse, I very much empathize with Roy. Situations like these can be profoundly difficult, presenting one with a bunch of seemingly suboptimal (and potentially risky) options. Alas, I'm not at all sure what to recommend. One reader submitted the following reply:

It would be a mistake to ask to work from home, unless there are health-related reasons to do so. At least where I am from, post docs are expected to contribute to the culture of the department/centre. You are to be involved in the everyday business of the department, entertaining speakers, and attending talks, etc. Your research job is not just about producing papers.

However, Prof. L submitted a more sympathetic take:

Roy—talk to your PI and get clear on her expectations regarding physical presence. I would not take a wait and see approach or anything like that. Just tell her your situation, make clear you are committed to the project etc. And then also find out the requirements of your visa. No one here can advise you about that, since residency requirements vary by country/visa types. I know in the US, we impose hefty penalties on overseas employment, making employing a person whose citizenship is elsewhere to work “from home” prohibitively expensive. At least, that’s my understanding. But you should ask real-life people who actually know about this stuff, and how it might apply to your particular situation.

All good points. Do any readers have any helpful experiences or tips to share here? It might be good to hear not only from postdocs, but also from PIs who might be in a position to say something about all of this from the host/hiring department side of things.