Applying for an Associate Professor position from a non-TT position?

In our August "how can we help you?" thread, S asks:

Suppose one has been on the job market for around ten years and has a publication record that compares favorably with what might be expected at the Associate Professor level. Suppose further that this person has never held a TT position. Would it be inappropriate or pointless for this person to apply for Associate Professor positions? Is it a requirement for such jobs that one already has tenure somewhere?

One can always try, of course, but unfortunately I suspect the chances of it working are close to nil. Another reader submitted the following reply:

You probably should not apply for associate prof positions. Though you might have a comparable research record, you may not have a comparable teaching and service record. Further, given that you have never been tenured, they may be very reluctant to hire you into a tenured position. The exception, I think, would be in certain parts of Europe, especially the northern parts, where assistant professorships are rare.

As unfair as it might seem, I expect this is probably how many committees are apt to think. Also, one must always remember that new hires need to be approved by Deans, Provosts, and Boards of Trustees. If an Associate Professor position is tenured (as virtually all of them are), the powers that be seem unlikely to me to approve hiring someone who has not achieved tenure into a tenured position.

But these are just my thoughts. What are yours?

Comments

[S]

Thanks so much!

[AnonymousPhil]

Being in a similar spot, I would also be interested to hear people's opinions about this (especially the opinions of department chairs and others who would have to discuss such a hire with administration).

And what about if the job in question is open-rank? If getting the job at the tenured level is not possible for the reasons Marcus suggests,, what might be able to be negotiated at the Assistant level?

[Sr and Jr]

Anon
When they run open searches, they will only do senior hires if they can really get someone whose career is going well. And, ideally, you know the person is not a difficult personality (though I once overheard a conversation at a conference where a chair reported, of a senior hire, to a trusted colleague, but in a loud voice, "we hired a real asshole"). AS for negotiating, this varies from school to school. I worked at a state school when I got my first TT. I was hired after being 5 years out. I was already the best published, even better than the two senior people. I was able to negotiate a shorter tenure clock, but a few years later the school stopped negotiating such things.

[tt now]

I was in a situation similar to S's. I received my PhD from a very highly ranked department and had been on the job market for nearly a decade but had never held a TT position. I was advised to apply for tenured, associate prof positions (in addition to TT positions). I never did receive an associate prof offer, but I did get some interest, and nobody ever suggested that my applying was inappropriate or pointless.

[Associate]

I received my first permanent post (in the UK) at the equivalent to Associate Professor level after a series of temporary positions. So in my case at least it wasn't pointless to apply (though that may not generalise).