Job-market discussion thread (2023-24 season)

Now that it's August 15th and the job market will be ramping up soon, I figured now is probably a good time as any to open up this season's job-market discussion board. After all, readers who will be heading out on the market may already have questions you'd like to discuss (about application materials, the application process, etc.). So, please feel free to bookmark and visit this thread throughout the job season to commiserate with others, or just to see what others are talking about!

As many readers of the Cocoon may recall, each job season the Cocoon hosts two different job-market threads:

1. A job-market discussion thread (the present thread): to commiserate about the market, discuss particular job ads, the market in general, questions about application materials, interviewing, alt-ac opportunities, and so on.
2. A job-market reporting thread: to post news about interviews, on-campus visits, offers, rejection notices, etc.

This post will serve as the discussion thread, and as in the past I will open the reporting thread at a later date, around or after most job applications become due.

Because someone always asks, "Why two threads?", there are a couple of reasons. First, some people may want to discuss the market but not stress over daily news regarding which jobs they still do or don't have a chance for. Conversely, others may not want to discuss the market but just want news about the jobs they've applied for. Second, these threads can get very long already, so I think the best way for people to get the information they want in a well-ordered format is simply to have two threads.

A few final notes:

• This thread (the post you are reading right now!) will be the home of this year's job-market discussion thread. So, if you want to discuss this year's job-market, just comment below.
• Please reserve job-market news (i.e. interviews, on-campus visits, hires, etc.) for the job-market reporting thread, which I will open sometime in September.
• A 'permalink' to this thread will be on the upper right of blog's right sidebar for the rest of the job season. -->
• Because of Typepad's functionality limitations (which only permits 100 comments before starting a new comment page), readers may elect to bookmark each new page of comments as each new page emerges. I recognize that it can be frustrating to scroll through page after page to get to new comments, and I think this is probably the best solution given Typepad's functionality limitations.

Finally, as always, readers are asked to please bear in mind the Cocoon's safe and supportive mission. I try not to moderate with too heavy of a hand, as I don't like to squelch reasonable discussion and debate. I also realize that the job-market can be an emotional roller-coaster, and that passions can run deep on job-market issues. But the Cocoon has always been intended to be an unique oasis of sorts: as a refuge for early-career philosophers to support each other and discuss issues related to their careers and the profession in productive, supportive way. So, I will moderate carefully to ensure that these threads remain a welcome environment for everyone--and, of course, if anyone has any concerns, please do not hesitate to let me know.

All that being said, discuss away!

Comments

[Kathryn]

Hey all! There was a recent posting from Middlebury College for a TT position with a deadline for Nov. 1st. However, as of today (8/15), on the Interfolio application, it says "not accepting new applications." Anyone else seeing this?

[Guy]

Kathryn,

I noticed the original posting too. It's no longer listed on Higher Ed Jobs. Maybe they already knew who they wanted but had to jump through HR hoops?

[not on the market]

If this is the philosophy of science position, it's currently open on Interfolio and based on Facebook posts, I believe it is a regular old search.

[A Picture Says 1000 Words, All of Them "Hire Me!"]

I have a very nice little graphic from my most recent teaching feedback data. For a job where the application materials are just a cover letter and CV, is it a good idea to include this graphic in either the cover letter or the CV?

The application is for a UK job.

[postpunkdoc]

Could we also do an updated croudsourcing job ads thread?

Some other questions:

How much biography is it appropriate to include in a diversity statement? (I have experienced some serious barriers, disclosure of which might risk being TMI, but I think also shows massive resilience and capacity to balance heavy demands while also doing good work)

As a first time commodity on the job market, any tips for staying well through the process?

[Justaminorthreat?]

@postpunkdoc, My sense (anecdotally) is that the committees are not looking for evidence of resilience and capacity (fairly or not). After all, the same evidence might also suggest an increased risk that things will get to be too much at some point! But, more to the point: I suspect that your biography might also be a resource for your engagement with students—that your distinct experiences and perspectives might both give you insights other faculty lack and present students a new model or access point. I suspect that, in general, showing how your biography will be an opportunity for the department is often a good strategy.

[Benjamin]

@postpunkdoc - Honestly, we care about your impact on our students, not about what you've dealt with. Every finalist has clearly demonstrated that they can do the job we are asking of them. The diversity statement for us, at least, should focus on how you add useful diversity and can draw in a more diverse group of students for our department.

[Mark Wilson]

I agree that stories about resilience are not relevant. It is not a suffering olympics. If in spite of the odds, you have generated excellent work or become an excellent teacher, then your excellence as a researcher or teacher is all that matters.

[sigh]

I am getting very conflicting accounts on cover letter length from two people I trust. A friend who just looked at my documents suggested I should use as much of two pages as possible without any padding. A colleague suggested it shouldn't go much over one page. This is quite the distinction.

Any insight? I looked back into the recent cover letter thread here but there were only two responses and neither on length.

[New parent]

Just wondering where to note that you've recently been on parental leave. CV? Research statement? Both? (Or neither? Though I've been advised to note it. . . )

[not on the market]

New parent, I had previously seen parental leave listed on a CV. That seems to me like a good place to put it.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't also address it in your letter. I wasn't on a search committee when I last encountered parental leave on a CV. (I think, by the way, it is good to include this information on one's public CV!)

Sigh, what I've heard during 5 years on the market was that if you can write a good one-page letter, that really impresses the people who really care about cover letters. This is especially true if you're a graduate student! But I do not think there is broad consensus - and I wouldn't even say that these people would count two pages "against" you. It's just demonstrating a particular skill, which some people on a committee might care about. You can't know ahead of time who cares about this, and if you discover your cover letter is better at 1.5 pages (with letterhead and signature and so on) then you shouldn't make you letter worse by trying to cut it to 1 page.

[Katie]

What are everyone's thoughts on the Society of Fellows applications? Are they worth the effort?

[shrug]

i'm about to apply to the same one for the third year in a row even though my contact in the department – in a very supportive way – tells me not to waste my time. they are extremely competitive, especially when they are humanities-wide.

so it's a matter of whether or not you think it is worth your time to throw your name into a lottery where your chance is probably a fraction of a percent regardless of the quality of application.

like i said, i do it. but they say it's not advisable.

[Katie]

Thank you @Shrug; that was my impression from others. This is my first time on the market and it seems like I would rather put my energy into other applications.

[feelin' lucky]

Is it time to fire up the job market reporting thread? Some app deadlines have already past.

Also, whenever it goes up, can we reiterate that the purpose of that thread is solely for reporting? It seemed like that norm was not sufficiently respected last year.

Thanks!

[Marcus Arvan]

@feelin’ lucky: I’ve always been a bit unsure when to start the reporting thread, but given that some deadlines have passed and you asked, I’ll try to get it up tomorrow!

[wtf?]

If you're interested in a full-time position teaching a 4/4 load for $20,000/year, I recommend this:

https://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/details.cfm?JobCode=178530499&Title=Instructor%20of%20Philosophy%20%26%20Religion

[re: wtf]

That looks like 20k for one semester, not the year.

[Michel]

Yes. One semester, four courses, $20k.

[repeat]

Question about job talks: Is it a bad idea to present a paper that one of the faculty members has recently heard you present elsewhere? Would it be better to present something that will be new to all the faculty?

[trying not to worry about everything]

@repeat: I would not necessarily refrain from presenting the earlier paper for that reason alone.

It also depends on, say, 1) whether you have an equally good, second paper to present; 2) how much you're trying to impress that one faculty member (which might not be worth it); 3) whether that one faculty member was impressed with the earlier presentation and wouldn't mind hearing it again; 4) whether you're able to add anything new to the earlier paper (It's unpublished and still subject to revision, right?).

Personally, unless I had some special information that suggested presenting the earlier paper would be problematic, I don't think I would worry about it.

[search]

does serving on a search committee go on your CV? if so, under departmental service?

[Utahn]

Philosophers with non-western specializations may be interested in this job advert (not posted to PhilJobs): https://www.higheredjobs.com/faculty/details.cfm?JobCode=178514241&Title=Assistant%20Professor%20of%20Humanities

[CVS]

@search: I've been on a few search committees and put that under my service section--I've seen other people do it on their CVs, so I figured it was reasonable.

[Philosomom]

I'm surprised by the discussion here regarding parental leave. I've been told never to mention parental leave ... what's the going advice on this? It matters for me, I've taken a few. But I've heard that it will make a committee see you as a mom more than a philosopher, as 'not committed to philosophy'. Like you won't be as productive or involved and it's better to just let them pretend you are childless until after you are hired.

Maybe the advice has changed? Maybe attitudes have changed? I hope so.

[Pomelo]

Looking at the Simon Fraser post - what do you all take "empirically informed philosophy of language" to be like?

[some anon]

@Pomelo I feel like the best test for whether you are a fit for that position is to check whether any of your work is fit for the journal Mind and Language.

[Pomelo]

Thanks @Some Anon. That was a great idea.

[two jobs same place]

If you are applying for two different jobs at the same institution, should you note this in your cover letter?

[motor city]

@two jobs same place

Are the two positions within the same department (perhaps with distinct search committees)? Or are they in totally distinct parts of the institution with no overlapping faculty?

[KT]

I have a couple job applications that ask for a "letter of interest" and then on the file upload it has it uploaded under "Cover Letter." For a letter of interest, are they looking for traditional cover letter (on letterhead, Dear Members of the Search Committee...") or is it just a statement of interest without those formalities? Thanks!

[Philosomom]

KT--I would take that to be simply synonymous with 'cover letter'.

[Philosomom]

Question re: different level jobs. If I am going up for tenure and expect to be tenured, but am applying out, do I apply for assistant or associate level positions when a department (say, Pitt) is hiring in both?

[Steve]

HI all,

The nature of my research is a bit ecclectic (though always based broadly about ethics); it includes content on disability (both theory and applied) and to the social and political philosophy of space.

I recognise that most applications are sought in a particular area and will likely want their hire to be able to teach core or foundational philosophical content in some area or other (in my case, surrounding ethics). How do I make my cover letter speak to my capacity in foundational teaching and research when my published papers are quite diverse and targeted, and not on foundational topics.

Also, and I am assuming lots of people want to know the answer to this, but what makes one person’s application stand out from the rest of the applications? Having never sat on a hiring committee, I am not sure what kinds of thing stand out when going through all the applications.

Thanks in advance!

[Mike the Tiger]

Is the LSU, Baton Rouge job (https://philjobs.org/job/show/24086) still open? The ad seems to have been deleted from the HR website and the deadline is in a couple of days.

[LSU why]

@Mike the Tiger I came on here to ask the same thing. It appears to already be closed. Did anyone happen to see if the HR deadline was a different date from what was listed on Philjobs?

[not a helpful adjective]

I'm looking at a job ad that makes reference to "critical epistemology." Is this code for something other than ordinary analytic epistemology?

[Mike the Tiger]

@LSU why
I heard from the search committee chair, and he said they took the job down to change it to an open rank position. It should be open next week.

[sometimes critical]

@nothelpful: I would assume it refers to work on topics such as epistemic injustice, perhaps also standpoint epistemology (although that's a controversial approach).

[lnwh grad]

Someone in the reporting thread was saying that Princeton does not do interviews for TT jobs. Does anyone know if this is still the case?

[Advanced?]

Curious what an "Advanced" Assistant Professor is exactly. See the ad for this job at University of Maryland: https://philjobs.org/job/show/24654

[Princeton info]

As of a couple of years ago my understanding is that they don't do first round interviews and go straight to flyouts

[Clarice Smith]

@Advanced? I think it just means someone who already has a TT assistant professor position, doesn't yet have tenure, but is close to being up for tenure at their current institution (presumably within the next year or two). And presumably with a strong publication record.

[Chris]

not helpful: I suspect "critical epistemology" may refer to the epistemology of the Frankfurt school. It isn't a term used by most contemporary "analytic" social epistemologists (e.g., all the recent work on epistemic injustice) - though obviously there is some common connection/cause with Marxism in both traditions. So who knows.

[applicant]

Just want to check that I'm understanding application instructions correctly. The below job ad for the Univ of Nebraska-Lincoln appears to be asking only for a CV, teaching portfolio, and writing sample (i.e., no Cover letter, and no research statement). And it seems like the instructions are to attach the writing sample in the slow for a letter of interest. Am I understanding this the same way everyone else is?
https://philjobs.org/job/show/24178

[lnwh grad]

@applicant, yes, that was my understanding when I submitted the application. My sense is that all of this is only for the first round of cuts.

[Confused]

Can anyone help explain to me the difference between a cover letter and a "a personal statement to include research, teaching, and service philosphy (sic)"? If I'm understanding the instructions correctly, Texas A&M requires both, which is the first time I've ever seen that. I'm also a bit confused, as I thought that a cover letter should already discuss one's research, teaching, and service "philosophy" (albeit in truncated form)...

Here's the job ad: https://apply.interfolio.com/124532

[Non-American Applicant]

Could someone explain how responses to two questions on American applications work? The first is 'are you authorised to work in the USA?' and the second is 'do you require visa sponsorship?'. Answering No to the first always makes me uneasy, as if my application will be discarded because of that, but that is the truthful response. Who needs to answer Yes to both questions? I would think that the answers indicate the same thing. Is it, perhaps, for people who have a visa connected to previous job and will need to be sponsored again in the new job? Thanks for any illumination into American bureaucracy.

[Assc prof]

Confused:

TAMU's application requirements are abnormal. So, you should be confused. My guess is that the cover letter is supposed to be very short, whereas the personal statement functions as a long cover letter. Though I'm sure TAMU is overall a good job, I always have hesitations about departments that can't put together a normal list of required materials.

[Fellow Non-American]

@Non-American Applicant, as I understand it, the first question asks you for your current status. So the most typical applicants to answer yes to both questions would be non-Americans who currently work in the US in some capacity, but whose work authorization is tied to their current position and would therefore require sponsorship for a new position, e.g. people on F1, J1, or H1B visas. By contrast, applicants who don’t currently have authorization to work in America would answer No, Yes and citizens and permanent residents would answer Yes, No.

I doubt that applications get tossed out on the basis of these answers. In fact, hiring committees probably don’t even look at them. Most likely, the information is just used by HR to initiate the right hiring paperwork should you be hired.

[Non-American Applicant]

@Fellow Non-American, Thanks for the response. That's helpful. I normally wouldn't think that applications get tossed for such a reason, but the lack of any repsonse at all on the part of many hiring committees does make me wonder.

[First-Timer]

Hi everyone, I'm a first-timer on the market this year. How common is it for TT jobs to open, say, in January or February of the job cycle? From the reporting threads last year I saw that SUNY Oswego had a position open later in the season, i.e., mid-January. Is this pretty typical?
One other question: From last year's reporting thread, it looks like most first round interviews are done over zoom. Are there any interviews still done at the APA? I know that practice is dying, but I curious whether it still happens sometimes.
Thanks in advance!

[Inside Knowledge]

@First-Timer: In the Fall run (October to January), most of the jobs are TT/senior hires, with some visiting jobs and postdocs mixed in. That proportion changes significantly in the second half of the cycle (January to April), where the majority of the jobs are visiting/postdoc and few tenure track jobs are in the mix.

Remember, this is a dynamic process. Granted, some people who are hired TT will be hired out of grad school (viz., have never held a full-time teaching position before). But the majority of the open TT positions will be filled by people currently holding full-time positions at other institutions. When those people give their notice to their employer, then the institution will need to re-hire someone else in those teaching areas. Sometimes they hire someone on a Lecturer/VAP line to replace a TT line and just run a search the following Fall; but if the department is lucky enough to keep the line, then some will run 'late' tenure-track searches in the Spring. The trick is just to be in a chair by the time the music ends.

As for APA interviews: very few. Most everyone gave that up after two big snow storms shut down APA-Eastern---Boston in 2010 (ish?) and later in Savannah in 2018. It used to be standard practice to put your intention to attend the APA in the closing lines of the cover letter. I can't imagine doing so anymore.

[core train to College Station?]

Very specific question here. Does anyone happen to have insight into Texas A&M's spate of ads this fall - three in core, two in history? Did they recently come into some funding for this? I know they just lost Kenny Easwaran (and Nathan Howard, who worked in normative ethics, before that), but maybe I'm missing other factors that would explain all of these lines.

I'm curious about having so many positions advertised specifically in core and history (and disappointed as someone who works in ethics and would be especially interested in jobs at A&M). It's also somewhat surprising that value theory isn't among the desired areas given their need for someone who can "contribute to our undergraduate program in Society, Ethics, and the Law." So a second more general question is whether that desideratum might help make it appropriate for someone working in ethics to apply for a position in core "broadly construed." Here's that core ad: https://philjobs.org/job/show/24518

[newly tt]

I think if one is an ethicist working firmly in an analytic mode, it would be worth e-mailing the contact person in that TA&M ad.

[SLAC Prof]

@ core train to College Station

I have no special inside scoop into Texas A&M's searches, but it's pretty clear from their ad that they are not seeing an ethicist. And if you take a quick look at their department, you can see why (they already have a number of people in value theory, broadly conceived).

You can't win if you don't play, and all that. I get that. And I also get that people running a search are in a privileged position in comparison to people who are searching for a job. But we, collectively, may want to keep in mind how much work it is to be a search Chair, and every email that needs to be read and answered and every candidate who doesn't fit the position takes time to deal with. This is time that is taken away from other things, including teaching, research, carefully assessing the other candidates, and basic self care.

I know it is very challenging to be a job candidate, but it is also hard to be a search chair. It would be good to try to remember that search chairs are people too, and they don't have unlimited time and resources.

[postclock]

general postdoc question –

i am thinking of using two referees that are not part of my dissertation committee. these are relationships i formed in the two years following my defense and whose work speaks more immediately to the present direction of my work. my hope is that such references will testify to my ability to advance as a scholar and form new connections. however, i also worry not using a supervisor or dissertation committee member might raise a red flag.

thoughts?

[sahpa]

postclock,

Can you not just use the two references you've acquired since finishing your PhD, plus your dissertation supervisor? I do not see the issue. Generally, 'outside' references -- those not from your PhD institution -- have a higher currency, since they can be expected to be less personally invested in your career success. They would almost certainly carry more weight than someone who was on your dissertation committee but wasn't supervising you. If/since your PhD is relatively recent, though, having your supervisor be one of the references is probably a good idea. If you have *no one* from your dissertation committee writing you a letter, yeah, that might raise some red flags.

So I'd advise going with your supervisor, plus the two 'outsiders'.

[so many docs]

When applications ask for a "personal statement that includes research, teaching, and service philosophy", is it permissible to just put a short version of one's research and teaching statements one after the other, and add a paragraph on service? Or does this need to show a more holistic effort to integrate the three?

[serving in the name of]

@so many docs, I assume you are applying to Texas A&M, no? I've never been asked for a statement of "service philosophy" before submitting my application there, and this is year six on the job market for me.

Anyway, what I did was give them my research statement and teaching statement unedited, plus I wrote a "service philosophy" that was basically just a narrative of the service sections of my CV and some reflections on what I take myself to be doing when "serving." That document came out to about 3/4s of a page single-spaced. Then I merged these three documents together into one document.

I'd be curious as to what others did to satisfy this strange document request, too.

[Dan]

First time i see this: for this job applications candidates should submit an anonymised writing sample, CV and cover letter.

How is that even possible (especially for the CV and cover letter)?

[Anonymizing]

@Dan - I think your meant to write “[REDACTED]” on your CV and writing sample docs anywhere that your name (including self-references to published works), your contact info (assuming it’s in the online application already, this isn’t a big deal), and other self-identifiers may occur, which may include indirect references to your gender, race, ethnicity, etc. Usually, the application is somewhat explicit about how much of this to redact for their purposes. So, if you have time to spare, it’s probably best to hit up the contact person listed on the job ad.

[gotta be a misunderstanding]

Where is this job ad? My guess would be that only the writing sample is to be anonymized. Anonymizing a CV or letter is beyond ridiculous, so that's what I would hope, anyway.

[first time]

First time on the US job market! How long does it typically take, roughly, to hear back at the first stage?

[Anon on anon]

The ad also says “Applications will be de-anonymised following the short-listing process.” So I take it the whole thing should be anonymized. It just means taking out your name, the name of your university, and perhaps the name of your advisor. Presumably there would be enough clues that someone could figure out who you are, but I don’t expect the committee will do that (what would be the point of violating a sanction nobody asked you to impose on yourself?).

I think this is a fantastic approach! I would love to see the data on how many candidates from non-elite schools get short-listed (vs the usual pool). I guess it could be a misunderstanding, but I hope not. I wish more schools would do this. It would help address the notable class barrier in academia.

[SLAC Associate]

@first time: For schools with application deadlines around Nov. 1, the committee will probably spend November reading apps and will draw up their short lists in early December. Contacting candidates in the second half of December for a late December or early January first-round interview is typical.

[gotta be a misunderstanding]

Anon on anon ... well, I think it's bizarre, if those are the requirements, and almost impossible to navigate. I suppose one could keep the cover letter extremely short and redact the whole top portion of the CV, and then the basis is *just* the writing sample and publications? That is, why stop at PhD granting institution, or current institution, if one is employed? Should one also not include the date of the PhD? Or one's earlier degrees and their institutions? What about job status, or clues to one's age? But that's also strange, because 2 great publications prior to earning a PhD is worlds better than 2 great publications 15 years post-PhD.

FWIW I would presume "anonymizing" a CV only means removing my name, not my institutions or degrees, for the above reasons. In any case, it's extremely silly. The burden on the applicants and the inevitable unevenness of implementation outweighs any potential benefit.

[ItalianScallion]

The job ads for Pitt don't mention cover letters or anything like them. Is the standard practice to include one anyway?

[Inside Knowledge]

@ItalianScallion: Yes, generally. However, for most Leiterific programs, the cover letter usually is not expected to be substantive. They're more concerned about pedigree, pubs, and the writing sample.

Keep the letter simple: just state the position you're applying for, the materials included, and your contact information. All the rest they can glean from the other materials.

[Don't get fooled again!]

Re Oswego:

Didn't they run this exact search last winter? Compare

https://philjobs.org/job/show/24714

and

https://philjobs.org/job/show/22717

Does anyone know what happened last year? Was it a lack of candidates they liked, or something else?

[Red Flags]

Is it generally considered a red flag if a department posts an identical job ad again from last season?
The ones I'm seeing are from very attractive universities in exciting cities with AOS/AOCs that are specific (not open) and in high enough demand that it's hard to imagine why/how they couldn't fill them.

Is this another way that employers "fish" for talent? (This is a little more obvious with annual open-rank, open-AOS/AOC ads like USC's.) Or, is it fairly common for universities to post ads without knowing for sure that they have the funding secured to make the hire?

[Ghosted]

Has anybody been ghosted by former recommenders before? I'm talking about people who haven't replied for > 4 months about updating a letter, or to follow-ups from dept admin about the matter. Why would that happen? Isn't it on them to say something if they don't want to recommend you anymore?

[ghostly anon]

If you really wanted to try emailing a third person as a final attempt, you could try the chair of the person who's ghosting you, or the director of graduate studies, or placement director, if you have one of those. And I'd recommend framing it at least partly in terms of concern: "Is this person ok? Haven't heard from them in a while!".

I was ghosted by a letter writer once. They wrote/updated for me for a couple years in a row, then stopped replying. I just didn't bother pursuing it, since I had enough other enthusiastic recommenders.

(What's really "on them" is a complicated blend of job responsibilities, institutional culture, personal idiosyncrasy, etc., although it would certainly be better if this didn't happen.)

[confused again]

Cocoran asks for a "Cover letter describing your (1) research agenda, (2) teaching experience and (3) your contributions to the Department and University."
If I combine my research and teaching statements, and add material on service, the resulting document seems too long to be a cover letter (even if I shorten the material for this purpose). What are others doing? Just a paragraph on each? Or a shortened version of research and teaching statements that are a page or more each?

[not confused anymore]

confused again
Yes, just write a paragraph on each. The cover letter, if read first, will tell people if your file is even worth looking at. Pick the highlights.

[Confused about Sheffield anon requirements?]

Has anyone emailed the contact person at Sheffield about the breadth of the anon requirements and got a response?

[First-timer]

Curious about whether folks have advice about sending an updated CV after one had applied for a position, e.g., after one has a paper accepted or other relevant information for committees.

[More CV drafts after interviews only (I think)]

@First-timer, I only send updated CVs to search committees after I’ve been interviewed, i.e., if I’m a first-round or second-round finalist for a job and I get significant publication news.

My thinking is that search committees are overwhelmed, and that my initial application materials are, upon submission, what I’m committing myself to giving them for their initial assessment. But in subsequent rounds, I take it that the applicant pack is far narrower and significant changes to my CV (e.g., significant publication acceptances) are something they’d want to know about to do their jobs.

I’d be curious to read other thoughts or opinions, though.

[jobmarketvet]

@Red Flags. I wouldn't necessarily interpret it that way. I can think of one case where I'm pretty sure a great job advertised last year and again this year was offered to a *very* in-demand candidate. That person ended up going elsewhere. If that decision dragged out into April or May (this I have no idea about), then the department on the losing end of that sweepstakes might have felt they were better off trying the same search again this year than going back to their shortlist (and it's possible everyone on their shortlist was already committed to another job at that point).

[r1 search committee member]

@First-timer as a member of some search committees I would say do it if it is a paper acceptance, especially if you have zero or few publications to begin with, or if you have a fair number but the journal is higher prestige than the ones you have. I'm not sure I would do it for anything else (except a large grant or something like that, so long as it didn't interfere with your ability to start the job, or a very prestigious prize). I think this stuff can really make a difference sometimes in the first round, so while I get "More CV..."'s reasoning, I think if you think it might materially affect you, it might be worth sending an update!

[Clarinet]

I am on the market for the first time. I am trying to plan some international travel for May, but I do not want it to conflict with possible flyouts, campus visits, etc. I have the sense that a May campus visit would be quite late, but I don't know if it would be like absolutely-unheard-of late or just somewhat unusual.

Is there anything to worry about here? Also, is there somewhere on this blog or elsewhere where folks have discussed (or collected data on) typical and outlier timelines for being invited to interview or visit campus? Would love a link.

[Daniel Weltman]

@Clarinet: When I went on the market in 2018, I got two flyouts. One was around April 8th and the other was around May 16th-17th. These were both relatively late, I think, because they were at international universities, and for various reasons we tend to look to get people near the end of the hiring cycle for permanent faculty. But I would imagine some American universities might have late flyouts too. And perhaps you are open to working at an international university. So, unfortunately, yes, it's possible that you could be lucky/unlucky enough to have a flyout that late.

[last time]

First-timer
It used to be easier to send updated c.v.s and it was sensible as well, as someone above noted. Especially for early career people, it may make a huge difference, ensuring that your file gets a second look. But, these days, where HR departments are mediating searches, it may be impossible. They may work with the assumption that what you have at the time of application is all that matters in the decision masking (and they may block departments from consider other things). The academic job market has become quite bureaucratic the last decade, at least at state schools.

[Ask and Ye Shall Receive, Partially]

First-timer,

I have done this twice in the past, successfully. It didn't get me an interview either time, but it was allowed.

[SLAC Prof]

@First-timer, I think you should follow the good advice offered above to wait to send an updated CV until after/if you get a first-round interview.

It would be good to think about what you would like to happen here and whether your expectations are reasonable. I take it you would like the search chair to update your file, i.e., remove your old CV and replace it with your new CV. Except that at every place I've worked, search committees *can't* actually update your file on Interfolio in this manner. So would you like the search chair to send an email to every other member of the search committee with your updated CV? And what would you like them to do with this? Keep it next to their computers? Write a note to themselves to make sure to read First-Timer's updated CV when they get to them in the queue? Or if they've already assessed your file, go back and reread it with the new CV in mind? And should the search committee do the same with all the other applicants who also write with an updated CV? Given that each search I've been on has had between 100-700 applicants and maybe 25% of these candidates will have updates to their CV between the time of submission and interview, do you understand how much time the search committee will spend doing the work of collating and organizing the updated CVs and rereading files?

As I've written before, I understand the incredible stress and strain job candidates are under. I really do. And I do my best to be cheerful and charitable with applicants. But it would be nice if candidates thought more about the fact that the people on the other end of the search process are actually people with lots of things on their plate, and the more time committee members spend on this sort of thing, the less time they can actually devote to things like carefully reading the files.

[First Time Application]

still no word from UCL? Is it usual that UK SCs would take this long for their searches? Asking because I am not sure on the differences in US/UK practices!

[Recently Hired]

@SLACProf seems to assume that job candidates are way more familiar with the inside workings of job searches than many probably are. While overall the considerations @SLACProf brings up are helpful, I don't think it's at all fair to insinuate that First-Timer's question is suggestive of a failure to see search committee members as "actually people". If @SLACProf wants to be "cheerful and charitable with applicants", they should try a little harder to actually empathize with the perspective of grad students, many of whom won't have gone through this process before (which is why they turn to this thread with their questions).

[Also applied for UCL]

@First Time Application: I don't think it's very unusual for UK universities to take this long. Keep in mind there's no first-round interviews in the UK, online on-campus interviews with shortlisted candidates. Also UCL was clearly not in a rush (in terms of time until start date) and has multiple searches at once.

[lnwh grad]

@First Time Application and Also applied for UCL, There are apparently way too many applications for UCL and shortlisting will take several weeks. There is no estimation as to when they would be done.

[SLAC Prof]

@Recently Hired
I've shared my perspectives here precisely to help candidates who, likely due to their lack of experience and mentorship, may not think about these matters.

Candidates self-sabotage in strange ways on the regular; my hope is that my comments would give job seekers insight into (one perspective on) what the search process is like from the other side.

[Kate Norlock]

@Clarinet, how long will you be gone? I have been on over a dozen search committees and we have never skipped interviewing of a candidate simply because they were traveling. If someone wants to hire you, they will probably wait a week if you say you're out of touch during certain days. I could be wrong and maybe there's a school where they're allowed to radically modify their list of interviewees on the basis of travel (!) but anyone following a minimally decent process should understand travel in May. Unless you're planning to be completely off the grid, go ahead and travel. One must live.

[Sad ABD]

How do I know if letters have been pulled from an application? I use Interfolio dossier delivery also for non-interfolio hosted positions.

[letters]

Sad ABD it will show up in your deliveries or, if you have it set up to notify you, you will receive an email notification.

[Sad ABD]

@Letters, my deliveries on interfolio just say "Sent." I did receive emails from interfolio saying that the letters were successfully sent, but I thought that having the letters "pulled" meant that you somehow know that someone is reading them. Am I wrong about that?

[Apps]

@Confused about Sheffield anon requirements? I haven't contacted them but just found this on their website.

In our Department, we practise anonymous shortlisting. Please submit a writing sample, CV and cover letter, all of which should be anonymised. These should not contain your name, email address or gender; other information is acceptable.

[Not confused anymore]

@Apps, thanks for that -- I wish they had put that in the ad explicitly!

[PD]

@Sad ABD

There's a broad sense of having your letters "pulled" which basically just means that Interfolio sent them to the institution in question. Sometimes you'll notice that almost as soon as you apply for a job, you get emails from Interfolio saying that they've received a request to send letters and then more emails confirming when the letters have been sent. In those cases, the system automatically "pulls" your letters. But the normal context in which someone on here might report having letters "pulled" is when there's a gap between submitting the application and getting those emails from Interfolio. The reason is that at least sometimes this indicates that the hiring committee liked your application enough to request to see your letters. It's hard to tell from this side of things, though. It could just be a delay in the system. But sometimes the job ad may say that letters will be requested at some later stage, so if your letters get pulled later, it means that you've made it past some initial cut.

[Sad ABD]

@PD Thank you, that was super helpful. I guess I haven't had any applications where they didn't already ask for letters from the beginning, and so when I asked interfolio to deliver them I almost immediately got confirmations.

[Job market question]

Sorry if this is an obvious question but does Interfolio support sending letters to jobs that use their own submission platforms rather than using Interfolio? A number of jobs that I applied for have their own portals and I’m worried that Interfolio only supports sending letters to jobs that use interfolio as the submission portal.

I’m paranoid because there is no record that the letters were sent on Interfolio (and the application portals do not specify if a letter has been received or not).

[It does!]

@Job market question, It absolutely does. I would say that's their real important function. The way to do this as follows:

1. Log in to your profile
2. Click Letters on the left
3. Look at any one of your letters and click 'View details' on the left.
4. Once you scroll down the text on the left of the screen, you'll see 'Document e-mail'
5. You can use that e-mail to send the letter to any portal you want, including ones that ask the letters to be sent to an e-mail rather than sent through a portal (You can do that through Deliveries tab on the left).

Hope this helps!