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08/13/2018

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Person

Pitt philsci postdoc has made an offer

anon

Bates made an offer for what was obviously an inside hire.

Re: Paul Schofield

pablo

One wonders what is the point of putting out job ads / searches for early modern philosophy / history of philosophy if you are going to hire the same people with AOSes or research in Ethics / Metaphysics and Epistemology, without any actual research in early modern/history. As if the vast majority of jobs are not already in those AOSes and thus taken by whoever works precisely in those fields - and this all the while there are so few early modern/ history of philosophy positions to begin with and so many competent scholars in those actual AOSes out there. It seems to be such an arrogant assumption that someone analytically-minded with an Ethics / Metaphysics and Epistemology AOS can teach everything, including early modern, while the reverse - for hiring committees - is rarely the case. The chances of getting a job listed as searching for an Ethics/Metaphysics and Epistemology AOS as someone working on early modern/history of philosophy are 0. As a hiring committee, why even pretend that there is a need for early modernists / historians of philosophy anymore?

anonymous

Hi Pablo,

If you're referring to Bates (I have no idea if it is true that they hired PS, but assuming it is), all the job ad said is this:

AOS and AOC should include History of Modern Philosophy, Environmental Ethics, and Political Philosophy

I think pretty clearly this suggests that the search was a disjunctive search in history of modern, environmental ethics, OR political philosophy, with a requirement that the candidate have at least an AOC in the other two areas. I don't think most people think that AOCs require doing significant research in the area. Also, if you're referring to PS/Bates, surely, since he's been there a while, they have a good idea of whether he fits their departmental teaching and research needs. I don't see what the arrogant assumption is. (Maybe you're talking about something more general? But I sort of doubt there is a big phenomenon of contemporary analytic M&E/ethics people being hired for history jobs.)

I also (truly) don't understand people's anger about "inside" hires. The person who got "inside" hired is just another person who needs a tenure track job, and is likely (I don't know the person in this case) very very deserving of a tenure track job. I don't get why departments should be obligated not to make inside hires, or why people think it is an outrage when some place advertises a job and then hires an inside candidate. Plenty of times the inside candidate does NOT get the job.

Marcus Arvan

I agree with anonymous. Candidates who get upset about inside hires need to bear in mind two things. First, inside candidates often get passed over (I've heard of and known a number of cases like this). Second, when inside candidates do get hired, it is because the search committee genuinely believes they are the best person for the job.

grymes

I am all for inside hires, and all against the requirement that committees do national searches. Just let 'em make the inside hire, and don't waste everybody's time and emotional well-being!

Any word on the York University jobs?

Marcus Arvan

Grymes: I agree, but I don’t think universities can do that. Although I may be wrong, I believe universities are required to run open searches by federal law. I believe it has to do with civil rights—that because universities receive federal funds (including federal student aid disbursement), universities must advertise all positions openly to prevent discrimination. That, at least, is what I recall hearing.

anonymous

York has what looks like job talks for the history job posted on their website. Not sure about the other job.

Gene

when inside candidates are hired, other candidates feel like their time was wasted (and like their emotions were drained). let's stop pretending like we don't get what's frustrating about inside hires. grymes gets it. be like grymes.

and yes, we know that schools are still legally required to advertise, and no, this doesn't make anyone feel better about it.

Marcus Arvan

Gene: let me pose a serious question to you and Grymes. With the way things are currently done, inside hires sometimes are made but sometimes the inside candidate is passed over because the committee judges an outsider to be the better candidate. This at least gives outsiders a chance to compete for the job—and again, outsiders get such jobs fairly often.

Would you or Grymes really prefer an alternative system where you have *no* chance for the job? That seems plainly irrational to me for a job candidate. Even though the current system in some cases “wastes outside candidates’ time”, it doesn’t really. It gives them a real chance. That’s better than no chance, or so it seems to me.

Anon

My department made an inside hire and, in my opinion, he wasn't qualified for the job as advertised. It's just that a number of people in my department had become close friends with him and wanted to keep him around. Let's not pretend that there's an even playing field between inside and outside candidates.

Marcus Arvan

Anon: no doubt the playing field isn't level. I never suggested it was. Of course there is probably a preference for an inside candidate. And although it may be unfortunate, sometimes that may involve hiring someone not as qualified. All that being said, I've seen a number of cases of inside candidates being passed over for outside ones--and my general experience having served on search committees is that people tend to want to hire the best person.

Again, no the playing field isn't level. But it's more level than it would be if departments didn't have to do a search at all. And I don't see the point of worrying about things one cannot control. The world is what it is: sometimes people have an inside track on things. All one can do is become the best candidate one can and let the chips fall where they may.

thejobmarketjustaintright

Did UNLV go straight to campus interviews?

Inside candidate

There was a search in my area in the department I am a postdoc in. I did not get selected, though I had a Skype interview (for fairness, since I was across the hall) and came close for a "flyout." I know people get riled up when departments hire inside candidates, but being on the other side, as an inside candidate that didn't get hired, it also feels terrible. I was clearly a strong candidate in my colleagues' eyes, so not getting to turn my temporary position into a permanent one, having now to need to move myself and my family after living here for several years is very upsetting. And this when I was clearly one of the department's top five choices. Of course all five of us would have done a good job, so why not just let me stay where I have developed relationships and a life? This might sound winey to many of you, but do recognize that now I see around me colleagues who decided my fate and chose to not allow me to stay. It sucks from the inside candidate's perspective immensely as well.

Amanda

There is nothing wrong with inside candidates. Sure sometimes they might get hired unfairly - but sometimes outside candidates get hired unfairly too. I tend to think most inside candidates are very qualified, and often they are at a disadvantage because what is unknown is compelling and you don't know their faults. I wish it was possible for schools to just hire inside candidates without a search when that is what they want to do . Some searches do seem to waste people's time.

Gene

"Would you or Grymes really prefer an alternative system where you have *no* chance for the job?"

This is a strange question that I don't quite know how to answer. Above, anonymous said that they didn't understand what anyone found frustrating about insider hires. Grymes suggested part of an explanation: searches where departments have a preference for their inside candidate, but do not advertise their preference, feel like a waste of time and emotion for everyone else, and having one's time and emotion wasted is frustrating.

Now I guess you might ask: Why is it a waste of time to apply to such jobs? Well, in many cases, had other candidates known that there was a preference for an inside candidate, those other candidates wouldn't have bothered applying.

But this is where you tell me that you know of plenty of searches where the preferred inside candidate didn't get the job, so it always makes sense to apply, and so it's never a waste of time to apply for jobs where search committees have strong preferences for inside candidates.

And this is where I tell you that it's not always appropriate to give other people advice, and this is one of those situations where you should just listen to people when they tell you that they're frustrated at not being given enough information to decide for themselves that the odds of landing a particular job are low enough that they don't want to risk investing their time and emotion into applying for it.

grymes

Hi Marcus,

Thanks for the background info; I'm (genuinely) glad that the national search requirement has a high-minded rationale, though I'm still against it (since I suspect that it does little-to-no actual good w/r/t civil rights).

Yes, I really would prefer a system in which I had no chance at jobs with strong inside candidates. I think it makes good sense to hire people who have put in their time as an exceptional teacher/colleague/scholar at your institution, even if you might have hired somebody else if you conducted a national search. The job market system should be less punishing for applicants like me. But that doesn't mean it should maximize my personal chances of getting a job.

Marcus Arvan

Hi Gene: I understand their frustration. Like I said, I've been there. I just sincerely don't think there's anything to be done about it. Anyway, I won't offer any more advice on this if it's not wanted.

Marcus Arvan

hey grymes: Thanks for your reply. I know all too well how punishing the market is, and I empathize. I guess it would be better if candidates at least knew whether there's a preferred candidate--as that would enable candidates to make a more informed decision. I just don't see that happening. We all saw what happened when Notre Dame accidentally posted job ads with preferred candidates. And I expect there may even be legal reasons for schools not to do that sort of thing (though I'm not sure). The job market is what it is: hell. I just tried to do my best with it, and am not sure what else there is to do unfortunately. Anyway, I wish you the best and hope you get the job you're hoping for.

grymes

Hey Marcus,

Hear hear to all that, and thanks.

anonagain

Hi all, any word on the Harvard Center for Ethics postdocs?

anonagain

thejobmarketjustaintright: UNLV did first round interviews before scheduling campus visits.

anon re Villanova Asian Phil

Any news on whether Villanova has scheduled on-campus for East and South Asian Philosophies?

anotheranon

Anon re Villanova Asian Phil -- I'm assuming that they must have done first round interviews for the job? I ask because I hadn't seen any mention of it on here or phylo (although I of course may have just missed it). Can you confirm they've done that so I can move on from this job mentally?

e

Who accepted the offer from Trinity College Dublin?

anon re Villanova Asian Phil

Yes, First round via Skype was a few weeks ago.

anonladygrad

I got a straight to fly out request for UNLV. I did not have a first-round skype interview--I think people are confusing the UNR (Reno) job with the Las Vegas job. UNR did first round skype interviews in December (which I also got a request for).

Are those reporting a first round at Las Vegas actually people who did a first round with them? I didn't get a skype request but I did get a fly out request.

anonymous

anyone know about the Boston College job?

Anon

Re: Boston College I know someone who had a first-round interview this week.

anonagain

Anonladygrad: my apologies, I'm the one who reported back on UNLV (based on knowledge of someone else's situation, not my own experience) and I'm afraid I *did* mix up that position with the Reno job. Lesson learned to double check second-hand information!

Also, some first-hand information: Clark University is scheduling flyouts.

anonphd

any word on the Nazareth job?

Michel

Rice PFO.

Number Three

anonphd: I interviewed with Nazareth last week, and I haven't heard anything.

JustWaitinAndWaitin

Any word if Georgia Southern invited flyouts?

Anon

Michel: which Rice job was the PFO?

anon

any news on bakersfield?

Michel

Anon: good question. The PFO didn't specify (I applied for both). It was just for "a position".

Anon

Michel: they were 3. The Open, Data ethics, and medical humanities. I applied for the second, as nd didnt get the pfo.

Dr. Job Seeker

Not firsthand but from a reliable source: CSU Dominguez Hills has scheduled Skype interviews.

grymes

Bakersfield is scheduling Skype interviews.

anon

I got a PFO for the Rice TT open-AOS job this morning. Not sure if that's the same one reported a few days ago.

Still hopeful

Does anyone have any news about University of Michigan - Dearborn?

no hope left

I applied for the Rice open-AOS position and haven't heard anything--no PFO, no request for interview. Not sure what that means, probably nothing.

anon

Georgia State (Perimeter College) has scheduled interviews for their lecturer position.

ABD

PFO from Ryerson (ethics). 200+ applicants, they said.

Anon

Any news on York (ethics)?

zijnk

U Navarra (Spain) is scheduling skype interviews (https://philjobs.org/job/show/11054)

Person

@Whomever Pitt HPS philosophy of physics TT had skype interviews in December and scheduled some campus visits.

inquirer

Anyone heard whether the Princeton Assistant Prof position or the Princeton Philosophy and Religion postdoc scheduled any interviews/fly outs? What about Lynn University (FL) and Minerva Schools at KGI? Also from everyone's experience having been on the market, how long from having applied to hearing about an interview? For example, if more than 2 weeks since application have passed, should you give up hopes of a positive outcome?

anonymous

Hi Inquirer, Princeton doesn't do interviews or fly outs for junior level jobs. I have no idea about the rest of those places. Also no, two weeks is not an adequate amount of time to assume that there is no hope.

Amanda

2 weeks? are you serious? More like 2-3 months since the application is one. I mean, it can be quicker but 2 weeks is way too soon.

And you should give up hopes immediately, I think, and then be happily surprised if you get an interview. That is the only hope in-line with the odds.

Anon

Minerva requested additional materials a few weeks ago.

irrelevant but curious

Princeton doesn't do fly-outs for Assistant Professorships? Do they hire people without having met them? Or only hire people they know prior to the search?

anonymous

Purportedly, they hire people based on their files. I think this usually but not always results in them hiring someone at least someone on the faculty has met. I don't know statistics. (Not defending the practice or attacking it, I don't have a view, but I suspect most "top ten" departments are mostly only hiring people who at least someone on the faculty knows too.)

anonymous

P.S. It's possible this is outdated information, I might not have heard if they had started doing interviews in the past five years or so.

anon

RE inquirer: I received a phone interview two months after the application deadline. My sense is that that's on the longer side, but still, it happens.

Anon student

Does anyone have news on whether CUA has moved to flyouts?

Anon

Anon student: I did a Skype interview w CUA and haven’t heard anything since.

norms

Do not expect an answer in two weeks. I was once called for an interview six months after the advertised start date of the job. Indeed, I was offered the job.

anon

PFO from Norwich.

Michel

Rejections and interviews have gone out for the postdoc in the Princeton Writing Program.

Michel

*I meant 'lecturership,' not 'postdoc'.

Anon

Any news on the UCLA post doc?

Michel

NEH postdoc rejection: 647 applicants
McGill medical education postdoc rejection

anonymous

Hi Michel: what is the "NEH postdoc"? I didn't see a postdoc that the NEH was running. Thanks!

Casey

Does anyone have any intel on the assistant professor position at Tennessee State University?

anon

Rejection from Baylor bioethics fellowship.

Michel

anonymous: Sorry. NHI (National Humanities Institute).

anon

Any info on Cal State-Stanislaus?

Anon

Has anyone heard if William Paterson scheduled interviews yet?

NA

Has anyone heard anything about Westminster College? I saw that someone reported getting a PFO back in November, but I've not heard anything from them.

Michel

Dartmouth Society of Fellows PFO.

anon

Rotman (Western Ontario) sent out Fellowship offers.

anon

Any word on the Princeton Philosophy and Religion postdoc?

Anon

Smith College is scheduling first-round intrviews for Mellon Visiting Assistant Professorship.

anon

Any news from the NIH bioethics postdoc?

Anonymous

Does anyone know what's going on with the positions at Rice (Open AOS for a TT in the Department of Philosophy and TT in Medical Humanities)? I have not received any communication from either department, and their job site says my application is under consideration.

bioethics applicant

anon: I have received an invitation for an on-campus interview for the NIH bioethics postdoc. It was not preceded by a Skype interview.

Anon

Anonymous: someone has received a pfo for the open position. I'm waiting to hear about the data ethics one (I'll send an email tomorrow). I don't know about the tt in medical humanities

Random job market person

I think for the Rice open position some people have received pfos and some have not. Earlier somebody said that they were focusing on associate prof level first, and only looking at assistant if that doesn't work out. So my best guess is that associate level candidates who have been ruled out have been sent pfos, but assistant level candidates are still in limbo.

anon 01/31/2019 at 11:35 AM

I got a PFO from the Rice open TT job, and I'm assistant level (ABD, so not borderline)

Random job market person

Huh, then I have no explanation. I have no PFO, and I doubt I'd be considered as an associate level candidate. I certainly applied as an assistant level candidate.

F. Contesi

I have a general (set of) questions. Does anybody know when “PFO letters” are sent out in the US? In the UK at least, the norm appears to me to be that one receives a “PFO letter” as soon as one doesn’t make the cut for a particular stage (whichever that is: long-list, interview, short-list etc.). Is it possible that in the US they are sent out all en masse after the final hiring decision is made? Does it depend on the job?

philosopher on the job market

Thanks for the comments on Rice University's position in the Department of Philosophy!

anon

Another anon says s/he received a PFO from Norwich. I applied, but haven't heard anything yet. Any others have news?

Dr. Job Seeker

F. Contesi: Check out the discussion we about week ago on the "discussion thread" ( https://philosopherscocoon.typepad.com/blog/2018/08/job-market-discussion-thread-2018-19-season.html ). The gist is this: many schools have requirements that they not send PFOs until after someone has been hired. And unfortunately, many schools never end up sending them at all.

anon

I too was rejected from Norwich

anon

Bioethics Applicant: Thanks for the NIH update.

anon

Did Lake Forest just schedule additional on-campus interviews?

###Candidate

PFO from Lehman & Santa Cruz. The latter was more personal and seemed to indicate they went direct to fly outs.

Dr. Job Seeker

PFO from Lock Haven this morning. And a PFO from UC Santa Cruz a couple days ago.

Anyone have word on Westminster or Samford? Their application due dates were some time ago (Nov. 1 and Dec. 1 respectively) but I don't recall seeing anyone post about PFOs or interviews yet.

anon

Westminster contacted some folks a while ago to say they didn't get interviews.

Any news on Samford?

anonagain

University of Michigan is scheduling first round interviews for their Cog Sci Lecturer position.

jobb

U Chicago closed their junior search without making any offers.

anon

Tennessee State is scheduling first round interviews.

Number Three

"U Chicago closed their junior search without making any offers."

World keeps turning, sun keeps burning...

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